Comments on: Transition Reflections from Copenhagen: Naresh Giangrande blogs from COP15d http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/ An Evolving Exploration into the Head, Heart and Hands of Energy Descent Fri, 25 May 2012 09:25:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ben Brangwyn http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65824 Ben Brangwyn Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:34:42 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65824 Naresh doesn't use the term "The Great Turning", but I see others do. My personal opinion is that "Great Turnings" and "paradigm shifts" are a little off-putting to most people, and don't reflect accurately the little incremental steps that people usually take. It may, in the end looking back, represent a shift, but that's probably not what it'll look like while we're in it. Ben. Naresh doesn’t use the term “The Great Turning”, but I see others do. My personal opinion is that “Great Turnings” and “paradigm shifts” are a little off-putting to most people, and don’t reflect accurately the little incremental steps that people usually take. It may, in the end looking back, represent a shift, but that’s probably not what it’ll look like while we’re in it.

Ben.

]]> By: julian http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65767 julian Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:08:41 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65767 Broadly echo D Dann and also to point out that the wait for the "Great Turning" will be that little bit longer just as long as it is called the Great Turning.(Why do people think Transition sounds a bit cultish!) Broadly echo D Dann and also to point out that the wait for the “Great Turning” will be that little bit longer just as long as it is called the Great Turning.(Why do people think Transition sounds a bit cultish!)

]]> By: Susan Butler http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65745 Susan Butler Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:29:25 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65745 It is immensely ironic that the world leaders in Copenhagen, utterly dependent on the no-longer-possible growth paradigm, are forced (by both science and common sense) to talk about climate change, which requires reversing growth! Cognitive dissonance, beautifully exampled! This sort of mental chaos is a fertile ground for another sort of growth --might we call it spiritual evolution? There is no choice. Reality calls. I'm encouraged by how far they've come in a few short years towards facing the problem. I'm also encouraged by how the world is now a unity, due to our technical interconnectivity, and is therefore able to reap huge synergistic effects. This advantage is just as unprecedented as the predicament itself. It is immensely ironic that the world leaders in Copenhagen, utterly dependent on the no-longer-possible growth paradigm, are forced (by both science and common sense) to talk about climate change, which requires reversing growth! Cognitive dissonance, beautifully exampled! This sort of mental chaos is a fertile ground for another sort of growth –might we call it spiritual evolution? There is no choice. Reality calls.

I’m encouraged by how far they’ve come in a few short years towards facing the problem. I’m also encouraged by how the world is now a unity, due to our technical interconnectivity, and is therefore able to reap huge synergistic effects. This advantage is just as unprecedented as the predicament itself.

]]> By: Jane http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65744 Jane Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:14:18 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65744 Given what we have at stake (our very existence as a species) it may be prudent to take a more cautionary approach... but that is not what we have selected our leaders to do. No, they are the successful risk takers.... and may be headed down that extravagent dead end... with all of us along for the ride! It's a pity that the decision makers in Copenhagen are made up of those risk takers, and that the environmental activists will be excluded, isolated and harassed by the police who are paid for by those same risk taking leaders. http://kapundagarden.blogspot.com/2009/12/climate-change.html Given what we have at stake (our very existence as a species) it may be prudent to take a more cautionary approach… but that is not what we have selected our leaders to do. No, they are the successful risk takers…. and may be headed down that extravagent dead end… with all of us along for the ride!

It’s a pity that the decision makers in Copenhagen are made up of those risk takers, and that the environmental activists will be excluded, isolated and harassed by the police who are paid for by those same risk taking leaders.

http://kapundagarden.blogspot.com/2009/12/climate-change.html

]]> By: Dave Dann http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65743 Dave Dann Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:44:55 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65743 I freely admit that I don't understand you Transitioners very much. Here's Naresh at a fancy conference somewhere , coming to the conclusion that "It will be down to non governmental organisations, campaigners, and activists, permaculturalists and organic gardeners." Well, pardon me but I thought that was THE WHOLE IDEA. But Transitioners seem to have a foot in both camps, nominally based at home tending their raised beds but actually fascinated by the limelights of the next conference, film launch or speech and can't keep away. How many times do you have to go around the loop of being disappointed by the powerful? What sort of addictions are in play here? Do you not believe your own message? More importantly I could get on the train tomorrow morning and pop down to Totnes. Will Morrisons car park be empty because it is Transition capital of the world? Somehow I doubt it, and THAT is the very reason why your conference fails. It is because there is only limited support for Transition amongst the population as a whole. You need to stop mixing with other Greens if you want to find this out. People are very worried now about their jobs, and they have mortgages to pay and they have no perception of 'going without'. So come home and work on that problem, because it's a tough one. To paraphrase someone "It's the community, stupid." PS Absolutely no personal or collective insult intended here - I wouldn't waste my time on this website if I didn't that there was something important happening here. I freely admit that I don’t understand you Transitioners very much. Here’s Naresh at a fancy conference somewhere , coming to the conclusion that “It will be down to non governmental organisations, campaigners, and activists, permaculturalists and organic gardeners.” Well, pardon me but I thought that was THE WHOLE IDEA. But Transitioners seem to have a foot in both camps, nominally based at home tending their raised beds but actually fascinated by the limelights of the next conference, film launch or speech and can’t keep away. How many times do you have to go around the loop of being disappointed by the powerful? What sort of addictions are in play here? Do you not believe your own message? More importantly I could get on the train tomorrow morning and pop down to Totnes. Will Morrisons car park be empty because it is Transition capital of the world? Somehow I doubt it, and THAT is the very reason why your conference fails. It is because there is only limited support for Transition amongst the population as a whole. You need to stop mixing with other Greens if you want to find this out. People are very worried now about their jobs, and they have mortgages to pay and they have no perception of ‘going without’. So come home and work on that problem, because it’s a tough one. To paraphrase someone “It’s the community, stupid.”
PS Absolutely no personal or collective insult intended here – I wouldn’t waste my time on this website if I didn’t that there was something important happening here.

]]> By: nika http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65740 nika Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:36:33 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65740 Naresh (we met at the Cambridge, MA T4T training) ... at the training I remember asking you about what the world tour was doing with latin america and, well, the third world. You quick reply was something like that they will do what they need to do and I got a sense that you were not thinking that Transition was going to be launched in much the same way as it was in the UK and US. I dont know if your thoughts changed as you went on with your world tour. The reason I bring this memory up is that I am so very inspired and I derive my hope from the news you give regarding the Sarvodaya movement - 15,000! Just amazing! I am looking forward to learning from them. The 5 stages of grieving for "modern" homo sapiens is never done. I am sure we all cycle through when special events like this happen (not all of us get to travel to Copenhagen). I have been watching YouTube videos from the alt conference and am seeing so many young energized people who will BE transition. They are beautiful and they embody my hope. It is indeed a watershed moment for Transition and the global collective reaction to the Great Turning. Naresh (we met at the Cambridge, MA T4T training) … at the training I remember asking you about what the world tour was doing with latin america and, well, the third world.

You quick reply was something like that they will do what they need to do and I got a sense that you were not thinking that Transition was going to be launched in much the same way as it was in the UK and US. I dont know if your thoughts changed as you went on with your world tour.

The reason I bring this memory up is that I am so very inspired and I derive my hope from the news you give regarding the Sarvodaya movement – 15,000! Just amazing! I am looking forward to learning from them.

The 5 stages of grieving for “modern” homo sapiens is never done. I am sure we all cycle through when special events like this happen (not all of us get to travel to Copenhagen).

I have been watching YouTube videos from the alt conference and am seeing so many young energized people who will BE transition. They are beautiful and they embody my hope.

It is indeed a watershed moment for Transition and the global collective reaction to the Great Turning.

]]> By: Armed with peer-reviewed science, we fight for a sustainable world « Ukiah Blog Live http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65738 Armed with peer-reviewed science, we fight for a sustainable world « Ukiah Blog Live Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:32:44 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65738 [...] From NARESH GIANGRANGE Transition Culture [...] [...] From NARESH GIANGRANGE Transition Culture [...]

]]> By: Sandy Barringer http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65737 Sandy Barringer Fri, 11 Dec 2009 16:22:44 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65737 Here's the gist to it all: It'll get done, not by politicians, but garden by garden, species by species, while the global system crashes because the politicians at Copenhagen simply don't want another way. (They are the same crowd who got us into this mess to begin with. And, they're going to fix it!) And, the leaders also fully understand that, in order to fix the system, they will, sooner or later, have to let go of their massive control over people and the global system and let us get about the business--from the grassroots--of fixing their messes. So, let the big guys have all the meetings they like, but let's us just get busy doing that which we know will truly save life on this earth. JMHO. Here’s the gist to it all: It’ll get done, not by politicians, but garden by garden, species by species, while the global system crashes because the politicians at Copenhagen simply don’t want another way. (They are the same crowd who got us into this mess to begin with. And, they’re going to fix it!)
And, the leaders also fully understand that, in order to fix the system, they will, sooner or later, have to let go of their massive control over people and the global system and let us get about the business–from the grassroots–of fixing their messes.
So, let the big guys have all the meetings they like, but let’s us just get busy doing that which we know will truly save life on this earth. JMHO.

]]> By: Gudrun http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65736 Gudrun Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:23:43 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65736 Hi - for info, here is the link to Tim Jackson's book - Prosperity Without Growth: Economics for a Finite Planet, which you mention in your post: www.earthscan.co.uk/pwg - Thanks, Gudrun Hi – for info, here is the link to Tim Jackson’s book – Prosperity Without Growth: Economics for a Finite Planet, which you mention in your post: http://www.earthscan.co.uk/pwg – Thanks, Gudrun

]]> By: Finn Jackson http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65735 Finn Jackson Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:08:56 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65735 So either way I get to be optimistic: optimistic that the politicians will do the right thing. And optimistic that if they don't, then that will be the spur that the great turning needs. So either way I get to be optimistic: optimistic that the politicians will do the right thing. And optimistic that if they don’t, then that will be the spur that the great turning needs.

]]> By: Finn Jackson http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65734 Finn Jackson Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:57:16 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65734 Naresh, I think your most telling statements are "...there will be no treaty to protect us against climate change.". And then: "I feel a bit like a child who’s parents won’t protect him; bewildered, lost and alone." I am an optimist. I hope there will be a treaty. But the "pessimistic" (aka "realistic") part of me agrees there won't be one. It is when our parents won't protect us that we learn to grow up. That is what will be needed for the Great Turning to happen. Society will not change the way it runs itself unless and until the way it runs itself shows itself to be broken. Best, Finn Naresh,
I think your most telling statements are “…there will be no treaty to protect us against climate change.”. And then: “I feel a bit like a child who’s parents won’t protect him; bewildered, lost and alone.”

I am an optimist. I hope there will be a treaty.
But the “pessimistic” (aka “realistic”) part of me agrees there won’t be one.

It is when our parents won’t protect us that we learn to grow up.

That is what will be needed for the Great Turning to happen.

Society will not change the way it runs itself unless and until the way it runs itself shows itself to be broken.

Best,
Finn

]]> By: Ben Brangwyn http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65732 Ben Brangwyn Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:55:32 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65732 Sharon Astyk in her most recent posting says, "Copenhagen is a trip to hell for those who truly and most sincerely grasp the scope of the problem." (http://tinyurl.com/yjlr7pu) Those who believe that the politicians hold all the power will probably agree with her. Thankfully, Naresh and others engaging wholeheartedly in transition have a different view of where power lies, latent or otherwise. And COP15 highlights just how important this is. I'm sure those of us heading over to COP15 will get glimpses of hell and glimpses of "heaven". What's most important is that we get neither totally depressed by the vision of hell, nor discouraged by how far we are from "heaven" we actually are. What we really need is a sense of courage to start, as Naresh says, in our own backyards, on our own roofs and in the neglected spaces that are in every community and are crying out for a bit of love and cultivation. And what better to inculcate that courage than the inspirational community responses we're seeing in Transition Initiatives and other community responses around the world. Sharon Astyk in her most recent posting says, “Copenhagen is a trip to hell for those who truly and most sincerely grasp the scope of the problem.” (http://tinyurl.com/yjlr7pu)

Those who believe that the politicians hold all the power will probably agree with her.

Thankfully, Naresh and others engaging wholeheartedly in transition have a different view of where power lies, latent or otherwise. And COP15 highlights just how important this is.

I’m sure those of us heading over to COP15 will get glimpses of hell and glimpses of “heaven”. What’s most important is that we get neither totally depressed by the vision of hell, nor discouraged by how far we are from “heaven” we actually are.

What we really need is a sense of courage to start, as Naresh says, in our own backyards, on our own roofs and in the neglected spaces that are in every community and are crying out for a bit of love and cultivation.

And what better to inculcate that courage than the inspirational community responses we’re seeing in Transition Initiatives and other community responses around the world.

]]> By: Mike Grenville http://transitionculture.org/2009/12/11/transition-reflections-from-copenhagen-naresh-giangrange-blogs-from-cop15/comment-page-1/#comment-65730 Mike Grenville Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:48:15 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=3205#comment-65730 did you mean ...'and the Calvary will arrive at the last minute' or '... and the cavalry will arrive at the last minute'? Hopefully it will be the latter that will happen! did you mean …’and the Calvary will arrive at the last minute’ or ‘… and the cavalry will arrive at the last minute’?

Hopefully it will be the latter that will happen!

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