Comments on: A Song from Under The Floorboards: the Decidedly Unsexy Face of Energy Efficiency http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/ An Evolving Exploration into the Head, Heart and Hands of Energy Descent Mon, 13 Feb 2012 00:35:27 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Alan Paxton http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60830 Alan Paxton Sat, 20 Dec 2008 00:29:04 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60830 "We are always doing something for Posterity, but I would fain see Posterity do something for us." Joseph Addison, quoting a(n imaginary?) Fellow of College in The Spectator, 1714. I came across this quote in John O'Neill's demanding but excellent book Ecology, Policy and Politics: Human Well-Being and the Natural World (Routledge, 1993). The Fellow's assumption is that we can benefit and harm future generations but that they can't benefit or harm us, and it's an assumption that O'Neill rejects, seeing it as central to our environmental problems. O'Neill is talking here not about our children but about the future generations who will live after we're dead and gone. How can they harm or benefit us? They can, he argues, continue and develop our life's work or maybe abandon and repudiate it. As O'Neill puts it, "Future generations can benefit or harm us: the success or failure of our lives depends on them for it is they that are able to bring to fruition our projects." So, future generations will determine whether insulating under your floor, and all the other efforts you are making to build a sustainable society, are lasting achievements or noble but futile acts. Whether your life is a one-off, tragicomic gesture, or is part of a longer and more fruitful story. “We are always doing something for Posterity, but I would fain see Posterity do something for us.” Joseph Addison, quoting a(n imaginary?) Fellow of College in The Spectator, 1714.

I came across this quote in John O’Neill’s demanding but excellent book Ecology, Policy and Politics: Human Well-Being and the Natural World (Routledge, 1993).

The Fellow’s assumption is that we can benefit and harm future generations but that they can’t benefit or harm us, and it’s an assumption that O’Neill rejects, seeing it as central to our environmental problems.

O’Neill is talking here not about our children but about the future generations who will live after we’re dead and gone. How can they harm or benefit us?

They can, he argues, continue and develop our life’s work or maybe abandon and repudiate it. As O’Neill puts it, “Future generations can benefit or harm us: the success or failure of our lives depends on them for it is they that are able to bring to fruition our projects.”

So, future generations will determine whether insulating under your floor, and all the other efforts you are making to build a sustainable society, are lasting achievements or noble but futile acts. Whether your life is a one-off, tragicomic gesture, or is part of a longer and more fruitful story.

]]> By: Jason Cole http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60693 Jason Cole Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:11:57 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60693 Rob - you may need to consider having a Radon test done as well; it's an issue that affects a number of areas in the South West. Rob – you may need to consider having a Radon test done as well; it’s an issue that affects a number of areas in the South West.

]]> By: Rob http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60692 Rob Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:42:00 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60692 Hi Rosemary... one of the best I have seen is http://transitionculture.org/2008/01/10/book-review-eco-house-manual/ Good luck! Rob Hi Rosemary… one of the best I have seen is http://transitionculture.org/2008/01/10/book-review-eco-house-manual/
Good luck!
Rob

]]> By: Richard Lawson http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60691 Richard Lawson Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:33:40 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60691 It was Groucho Marx who said "Why should I care about posterity? What's posterity ever done for me?" Economists have a word for this attitude: It's called the Discount Rate: the percentage by which the value of a cash flow in a discounted cash flow (DCF) valuation is reduced for each time period by which it is removed from the present. Which means in practice, Blow you, grandchildren, I'm all right. It was Groucho Marx who said “Why should I care about posterity? What’s posterity ever done for me?”

Economists have a word for this attitude: It’s called the Discount Rate: the percentage by which the value of a cash flow in a discounted cash flow (DCF) valuation is reduced for each time period by which it is removed from the present.

Which means in practice, Blow you, grandchildren, I’m all right.

]]> By: Greenpa http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60690 Greenpa Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:21:01 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60690 Paula- :-) Well, keep in mind that I DID make it out. I'll try to restrain myself. Paula- :-) Well, keep in mind that I DID make it out. I’ll try to restrain myself.

]]> By: Rosemary Bland http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60689 Rosemary Bland Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:36:58 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60689 Are there any particular retrofit books anybody can recommend? We have all these lovely jobs aead of us, but most of the green building advice seems to be about new build! Are there any particular retrofit books anybody can recommend? We have all these lovely jobs aead of us, but most of the green building advice seems to be about new build!

]]> By: Paula Kovacs http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60688 Paula Kovacs Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:24:09 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60688 Woah Greenpa! Full blown panic attack 'reaching-for-the-rescue-remedy'. Per...lease, no more about being stuck in caves underground...OK? Woah Greenpa! Full blown panic attack ‘reaching-for-the-rescue-remedy’. Per…lease, no more about being stuck in caves underground…OK?

]]> By: Greenpa http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60686 Greenpa Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:14:39 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60686 Hilarious stuff! I insulated my floor when I built my house- but that was 30 years ago; and I have a nagging suspicion it needs to be fixed a bit. Primarily mice, I think. 30 years of tunnels and nests and romping have probably left some holes. Getting at it is not going to be fun. Your description of working under the floor reminded me forcibly that I used to do that for fun. Spelunking, or caving, it's called. I did a lot in college. Why- remains a puzzle. Weirdly addictive- on a long trip, I would daily have the experience of being in a tight, muddy, remote place, with 500' of rock over my head (helmet off, pushed in front, head turned sideways, because the hole was that tight) and thinking loudly to myself "what the HELL are you doing here! I hate this! I'm never doing this again! You're a moron! I'm going to get stuck and DIE here." And then, the next day- being wildly eager to do it again. Any signs of your becoming a compulsive floor insulator? Hilarious stuff! I insulated my floor when I built my house- but that was 30 years ago; and I have a nagging suspicion it needs to be fixed a bit. Primarily mice, I think. 30 years of tunnels and nests and romping have probably left some holes. Getting at it is not going to be fun.

Your description of working under the floor reminded me forcibly that I used to do that for fun. Spelunking, or caving, it’s called. I did a lot in college. Why- remains a puzzle. Weirdly addictive- on a long trip, I would daily have the experience of being in a tight, muddy, remote place, with 500′ of rock over my head (helmet off, pushed in front, head turned sideways, because the hole was that tight) and thinking loudly to myself “what the HELL are you doing here! I hate this! I’m never doing this again! You’re a moron! I’m going to get stuck and DIE here.” And then, the next day- being wildly eager to do it again.

Any signs of your becoming a compulsive floor insulator?

]]> By: Graham Burnett http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60685 Graham Burnett Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:08:07 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60685 Martin, did you used to run a fanzine based around Birmingham called Adventures Close to Home in the early 80s? if it is you, we used to correspond back in the day - I used to do a fanzine called New Crimes. Intersting that we've both ended up interested in Transition, Permaculture, etc... Would love to go to the magazine gig but Manchester is a bit too far away.... Martin, did you used to run a fanzine based around Birmingham called Adventures Close to Home in the early 80s? if it is you, we used to correspond back in the day – I used to do a fanzine called New Crimes. Intersting that we’ve both ended up interested in Transition, Permaculture, etc…

Would love to go to the magazine gig but Manchester is a bit too far away….

]]> By: martin http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60684 martin Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:49:41 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60684 any transitoners going to be at the gig in Manchester on the 14th? any transitoners going to be at the gig in Manchester on the 14th?

]]> By: Rob http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60683 Rob Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:47:12 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60683 This is my favourite, and is the song the piece was named after... "my irritability keeps me alive and kicking..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58kCYsiwt0&feature=related This is my favourite, and is the song the piece was named after… “my irritability keeps me alive and kicking…”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p58kCYsiwt0&feature=related

]]> By: Klaus http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60679 Klaus Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:22:39 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60679 Sorry but I'm much more interested in Magazine reforming than your floorboards Rob: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfVRH4vKcak. Brilliant! Sorry but I’m much more interested in Magazine reforming than your floorboards Rob: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfVRH4vKcak. Brilliant!

]]> By: martin http://transitionculture.org/2008/12/15/the-decidedly-unsexy-face-of-energy-efficiency/comment-page-1/#comment-60678 martin Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:19:17 +0000 http://transitionculture.org/?p=2200#comment-60678 Rob, an old Magazine fan eh? ;) Rob, an old Magazine fan eh? ;)

]]>