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	<title>Comments on: Responding to Greer&#8217;s Thoughts on &#8216;Premature Triumphalism&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/</link>
	<description>An Evolving Exploration into the Head, Heart and Hands of Energy Descent</description>
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		<title>By: Leanne Daharja Veitch</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60433</link>
		<dc:creator>Leanne Daharja Veitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60433</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know whether Transition will succeed. No-one does. But as Rob points out, sitting on our behinds and doing nothing will achieve precisely...nothing.

I found Greer&#039;s article interesting and insightful, and posted it to my own fledgling Transition group&#039;s email list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transitiondunedin/) as I felt it was worth a mention. I&#039;m thinking I will post Rob&#039;s positive and intelligent response as well.

If we are to act as responsible adults taking charge of our futures, it makes sense to try out any tools for transition and adaptation that seem logical and that are available. Transition Towns offers a series of what I believe are very good, adaptable tools, and a template that seems to be working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know whether Transition will succeed. No-one does. But as Rob points out, sitting on our behinds and doing nothing will achieve precisely&#8230;nothing.</p>
<p>I found Greer&#8217;s article interesting and insightful, and posted it to my own fledgling Transition group&#8217;s email list (<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transitiondunedin/" rel="nofollow">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/transitiondunedin/</a>) as I felt it was worth a mention. I&#8217;m thinking I will post Rob&#8217;s positive and intelligent response as well.</p>
<p>If we are to act as responsible adults taking charge of our futures, it makes sense to try out any tools for transition and adaptation that seem logical and that are available. Transition Towns offers a series of what I believe are very good, adaptable tools, and a template that seems to be working.</p>
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		<title>By: Sonya</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60354</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60354</guid>
		<description>I think if we can stay true to the underlying heart and soul of the Transition Town culture, if we understand and follow permaculture ethics and principles, if we let it go where it needs to go, if we talk to each other, and really importantly if we actually try this out in our communities and see what really works. Make it manifest and see what happens.

We also need to ensure we make it relevant to our own unique communities, and make changes if we need to (- we&#039;ve had to do that here as Australia is a very different country to the UK), keep an eye on the big picture of reducing energy dependence.

I&#039;m reminded of a comment Richard Heinberg made in the Permaculture magazine.

“(they - Transition Towns) are like test tube experiments for what the rest of society is going to have to do. … very soon every town, every city in the world is going to be faced with the need for making the same kinds of choices. So having at least a few communities that have undertaken the process voluntarily and proactively, and that have tested out the options and found ways of doing this successfully, is going to be very important. These towns will show the way for the rest of us.” 

Permaculture Magazine interview Spring 2007

This comment is in the front of our EDAP which will soon be presented to local and state govt. 

Sonya</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if we can stay true to the underlying heart and soul of the Transition Town culture, if we understand and follow permaculture ethics and principles, if we let it go where it needs to go, if we talk to each other, and really importantly if we actually try this out in our communities and see what really works. Make it manifest and see what happens.</p>
<p>We also need to ensure we make it relevant to our own unique communities, and make changes if we need to (- we&#8217;ve had to do that here as Australia is a very different country to the UK), keep an eye on the big picture of reducing energy dependence.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m reminded of a comment Richard Heinberg made in the Permaculture magazine.</p>
<p>“(they &#8211; Transition Towns) are like test tube experiments for what the rest of society is going to have to do. … very soon every town, every city in the world is going to be faced with the need for making the same kinds of choices. So having at least a few communities that have undertaken the process voluntarily and proactively, and that have tested out the options and found ways of doing this successfully, is going to be very important. These towns will show the way for the rest of us.” </p>
<p>Permaculture Magazine interview Spring 2007</p>
<p>This comment is in the front of our EDAP which will soon be presented to local and state govt. </p>
<p>Sonya</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Thorp</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60341</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Thorp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60341</guid>
		<description>Hey transitionistas - in the real world as soon as the plan is printed it is already obselete.  So it goes. And nothing succeeds as planned.  But I&#039;m reminded of the story of a group of friends   who went for a stroll in to the hills.  The sun shone, birds sang, they enjoyed one anothers company and talked away as they wound their way deeper into the mountains. As time wore on the sky darkened and snow began to fall in gentle flurries.  Soon a biting blizzard covered their tracks and hid the land.  They took shelter, huddled together and waited but the snow grew deeper and they grew cold and hungry.  They began to fret and search their pockets and packs for food - when a shout went up that a map had been found! The group rallied and were galvanised into action and within a few short hours they were out of the storm and soon entering a friendly wayside inn.  They ordered drinks and vitals and told the landlord their story, showing him the map.  The inn keeper looked at the map and exclaimed &quot;I&#039;m pleased you found safety and your way here but this is not a map of this area.&quot; 

So it goes.........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey transitionistas &#8211; in the real world as soon as the plan is printed it is already obselete.  So it goes. And nothing succeeds as planned.  But I&#8217;m reminded of the story of a group of friends   who went for a stroll in to the hills.  The sun shone, birds sang, they enjoyed one anothers company and talked away as they wound their way deeper into the mountains. As time wore on the sky darkened and snow began to fall in gentle flurries.  Soon a biting blizzard covered their tracks and hid the land.  They took shelter, huddled together and waited but the snow grew deeper and they grew cold and hungry.  They began to fret and search their pockets and packs for food &#8211; when a shout went up that a map had been found! The group rallied and were galvanised into action and within a few short hours they were out of the storm and soon entering a friendly wayside inn.  They ordered drinks and vitals and told the landlord their story, showing him the map.  The inn keeper looked at the map and exclaimed &#8220;I&#8217;m pleased you found safety and your way here but this is not a map of this area.&#8221; </p>
<p>So it goes&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Brownlee</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60312</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Brownlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Nov 2008 03:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60312</guid>
		<description>Dear Rob,
 
Well, I do say unapologetically that even though it&#039;s still early, I am increasingly convinced that Transition may be the fastest growing, most inspiring, and most significant social change movement we&#039;ve ever seen. But I don&#039;t say this lightly, and I&#039;m not a wide-eyed idealist. I&#039;ve been around long enough and involved in enough social change work to have something to say about this. For that matter, I&#039;ve been in the gnarly trenches of relocalization going on four years, and after witnessing the new life that Transition is bringing to these efforts, I am deeply impressed. 
 
I know better than to ever make the claim that Transition will succeed. After all, no one has ever relocalized a community before (which of course implies that no one really knows how to do this). But there are very hopeful signs we can point to that Transition is beginning to work in many communities. Besides, Transition is well-grounded, underpinned by an understanding, principles, ethics and methodologies that (as far as I can tell) have never been brought together before. The model is flexible, responsive, adaptive, creative, both broad and deep, replicable, downright brilliant, and highly contagious. Most importantly, people are responding. Transition is attracting extraordinary people, calling them forth in most heartening ways. More than anything else, this gives me a degree of confidence that this has a chance of working.
 
While it&#039;s true that we have no assurance Transition will ultimately succeed in the U.S., we&#039;re going to give it our all here anyway. I see no downside risk to wholeheartedly placing all our local bets on Transition and attempting to engage entire communities in the process. But I do agree it&#039;s important to include your Cheerful Disclaimer, and we will consistently do so henceforth. 
 
It&#039;s actually a bit more than a social experiment we&#039;re involved in here. This is for keeps. We don&#039;t have the luxury of blithely mucking around or sitting on the sidelines in the hopes that something better will come along. Our communities are directly in the path of a global tsunami (the combined local impacts of peak oil, climate change, and resulting economic instability), and we&#039;ve got to quickly rise to the occasion and get ourselves to higher ground—together. 
 
Preparing our communities for the coming challenges and opportunities is a high stakes endeavor, and there is considerable urgency. We&#039;ve made a profound commitment to Transition here, not because it&#039;s &quot;the answer&quot; but because it surely seems to be way ahead of whatever might be in second place.
 
As you freely acknowledge, we might yet fail in all this. And if we do, we will at least know that we have given ourselves, withholding nothing, to what we considered was both most important and most urgent. The learning that will come from our experience will likely be useful to others who will subsequently inherit these challenges and opportunities.
 
Gratefully,
 
Michael Brownlee
Transition Boulder County (Colorado, USA)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Rob,</p>
<p>Well, I do say unapologetically that even though it&#8217;s still early, I am increasingly convinced that Transition may be the fastest growing, most inspiring, and most significant social change movement we&#8217;ve ever seen. But I don&#8217;t say this lightly, and I&#8217;m not a wide-eyed idealist. I&#8217;ve been around long enough and involved in enough social change work to have something to say about this. For that matter, I&#8217;ve been in the gnarly trenches of relocalization going on four years, and after witnessing the new life that Transition is bringing to these efforts, I am deeply impressed. </p>
<p>I know better than to ever make the claim that Transition will succeed. After all, no one has ever relocalized a community before (which of course implies that no one really knows how to do this). But there are very hopeful signs we can point to that Transition is beginning to work in many communities. Besides, Transition is well-grounded, underpinned by an understanding, principles, ethics and methodologies that (as far as I can tell) have never been brought together before. The model is flexible, responsive, adaptive, creative, both broad and deep, replicable, downright brilliant, and highly contagious. Most importantly, people are responding. Transition is attracting extraordinary people, calling them forth in most heartening ways. More than anything else, this gives me a degree of confidence that this has a chance of working.</p>
<p>While it&#8217;s true that we have no assurance Transition will ultimately succeed in the U.S., we&#8217;re going to give it our all here anyway. I see no downside risk to wholeheartedly placing all our local bets on Transition and attempting to engage entire communities in the process. But I do agree it&#8217;s important to include your Cheerful Disclaimer, and we will consistently do so henceforth. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s actually a bit more than a social experiment we&#8217;re involved in here. This is for keeps. We don&#8217;t have the luxury of blithely mucking around or sitting on the sidelines in the hopes that something better will come along. Our communities are directly in the path of a global tsunami (the combined local impacts of peak oil, climate change, and resulting economic instability), and we&#8217;ve got to quickly rise to the occasion and get ourselves to higher ground—together. </p>
<p>Preparing our communities for the coming challenges and opportunities is a high stakes endeavor, and there is considerable urgency. We&#8217;ve made a profound commitment to Transition here, not because it&#8217;s &#8220;the answer&#8221; but because it surely seems to be way ahead of whatever might be in second place.</p>
<p>As you freely acknowledge, we might yet fail in all this. And if we do, we will at least know that we have given ourselves, withholding nothing, to what we considered was both most important and most urgent. The learning that will come from our experience will likely be useful to others who will subsequently inherit these challenges and opportunities.</p>
<p>Gratefully,</p>
<p>Michael Brownlee<br />
Transition Boulder County (Colorado, USA)</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Anderson</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60310</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 23:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60310</guid>
		<description>I tried to post a comment with links to Russ Grayson&#039;s  permaculture articles, but it doesn&#039;t seem to have been accepted.

Bart
Energy Bulletin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tried to post a comment with links to Russ Grayson&#8217;s  permaculture articles, but it doesn&#8217;t seem to have been accepted.</p>
<p>Bart<br />
Energy Bulletin</p>
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		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60309</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60309</guid>
		<description>Well having read both Greers article and Rob&#039;s responses, I agree with Greer that we have to avoid this premature triumphalism, very important. However I also agree with several of the posters here that the transition movement is the best of the available options to date. What it has done for me is got me out of stunned mullet mode and given me a chance to feel hope again. That hope has led to a feeling of safety that very few people feel in our current &#039;buy your way out of everything&#039; culture. Having worked with children for a lot of my working life, they need to feel safety like the rest of us, before they able to interact with others and to learn. If helping us all to feel hope is the ONLY thing the transition movement does then that in itself is worthwhile. However I feel that the potential of this approach is far more wide ranging. I have in the last month joined a steering group of a new transition town and since then have influenced others to think about starting the same thing in their own towns. We are two weeks away from our fist film showing and discussion to spread the idea. I have no idea where we are going beyond inviting people to consider the ideas but feel convinced that the bottom up approach has got to prove more useful than the top down approach of the last 100 plus years.  

Let the people dance!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well having read both Greers article and Rob&#8217;s responses, I agree with Greer that we have to avoid this premature triumphalism, very important. However I also agree with several of the posters here that the transition movement is the best of the available options to date. What it has done for me is got me out of stunned mullet mode and given me a chance to feel hope again. That hope has led to a feeling of safety that very few people feel in our current &#8216;buy your way out of everything&#8217; culture. Having worked with children for a lot of my working life, they need to feel safety like the rest of us, before they able to interact with others and to learn. If helping us all to feel hope is the ONLY thing the transition movement does then that in itself is worthwhile. However I feel that the potential of this approach is far more wide ranging. I have in the last month joined a steering group of a new transition town and since then have influenced others to think about starting the same thing in their own towns. We are two weeks away from our fist film showing and discussion to spread the idea. I have no idea where we are going beyond inviting people to consider the ideas but feel convinced that the bottom up approach has got to prove more useful than the top down approach of the last 100 plus years.  </p>
<p>Let the people dance!</p>
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		<title>By: Greenpa</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60303</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenpa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60303</guid>
		<description>woops. sorry about the weird italics; I tried to be fancy and put in an italic I; and wound up losing the I and changing everything downstream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>woops. sorry about the weird italics; I tried to be fancy and put in an italic I; and wound up losing the I and changing everything downstream.</p>
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		<title>By: Greenpa</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60302</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenpa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60302</guid>
		<description>Brixtonian- well, but step back just a tad.  YOU were participating- and the premature aspects were visible to you; and so was the dearth of racial diversity.

Those were good things for you to be noticing.  I&#039;ll bet my shirt you were not the only one noticing and thinking.  That&#039;s good.

So is the joy and spirit of being involved in something very cool- and new- and possibly historical.  I don&#039;t see any reason to throw cold water on the spirit, when so many people involved are already saying, in quieter moments, &quot;yes, but...&quot;

YOU are the reason Greer is mistaken.  This is not a blind religious movement you have here, but one that is trying to keep an open mind- on everything.

Why would anyone want to smack a child, that has just achieved something good, cool, and skillful, and say &quot;Don&#039;t be so happy!  You&#039;re not as smart as you think you are!&quot;  (The subtext there, is, you&#039;re not as smart as &lt;i&gt; am. - which I hear from Greer a lot.)

Let the child dance.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brixtonian- well, but step back just a tad.  YOU were participating- and the premature aspects were visible to you; and so was the dearth of racial diversity.</p>
<p>Those were good things for you to be noticing.  I&#8217;ll bet my shirt you were not the only one noticing and thinking.  That&#8217;s good.</p>
<p>So is the joy and spirit of being involved in something very cool- and new- and possibly historical.  I don&#8217;t see any reason to throw cold water on the spirit, when so many people involved are already saying, in quieter moments, &#8220;yes, but&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>YOU are the reason Greer is mistaken.  This is not a blind religious movement you have here, but one that is trying to keep an open mind- on everything.</p>
<p>Why would anyone want to smack a child, that has just achieved something good, cool, and skillful, and say &#8220;Don&#8217;t be so happy!  You&#8217;re not as smart as you think you are!&#8221;  (The subtext there, is, you&#8217;re not as smart as <i> am. &#8211; which I hear from Greer a lot.)</p>
<p>Let the child dance.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Sonya</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60289</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60289</guid>
		<description>And... re permaculture&#039;s role in this. I did my PDC and my teacher training with Robin Clayfield and CERT IV qualifications in Oct 2006 after many years reading about it and studying it. In August that year I also heard David Holmgren speak about regional sustainability in an energy descent future.

For me, and this is only me personal observations, the PDC covered permaculture (and all its lessons and principles in energy efficiencies and sustainable systems design) in the landscape, except of course Chapter 14 in the Designer&#039;s Manual which touches on alternative nations.

After the PDC I wanted to spend a two week block studying David Holmgren&#039;s text as it applies to the social, economic and supply and production systems of our region. This is how we came up with writing our energy descent action planning course - with the EDAP (as mentioned by David in his talk) as the final product.

Here on the Sunshine Coast we&#039;ve excelled in permaculture food production. We have three very active pc groups and Crystal Waters village nearby. 

Nambour - my nearest town - was the site of the world&#039;s first pc community group in 1974, started by Max Lindegger. Geoff Lawton started our biggest group - permaculture noosa.

Yet, here it&#039;s seen in the community mainly as food production - or worse still as companion planting or mulching!

Using the term &#039;transition towns&#039; we are applying those exact same principles in David&#039;s text and the seven domains of action (expanded to be the sectors of our edap) and people are very accepting of it. They don&#039;t have those pre-conceived attitudes to pc. 

Some people have even come up to us afterwards and said we should do a permaculture course, cause it&#039;s the same thing. (We both teach PDCs - my partner in this project has been for more than 20 years and has co-taught with Bill and also was instrumental in the accredited permaculture training programs - I&#039;m just learning from her)

I see TTs as an important part of this third wave of environmentalism we are experiencing, but taking it beyond only environment to the social and structural (both hard and soft infrastructure) of our entire societies.

I&#039;ve gone right back to Permaculture One - on the first page of that - published in 1978 - it says that permaculture has a much wider impact - as a solution to (among other things) our fast-depleting energy.

We&#039;re working with David Holmgren reporting back what we are doing and how we are utilising his text to do this.

Transition Towns = best thing since sliced bread!

S</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And&#8230; re permaculture&#8217;s role in this. I did my PDC and my teacher training with Robin Clayfield and CERT IV qualifications in Oct 2006 after many years reading about it and studying it. In August that year I also heard David Holmgren speak about regional sustainability in an energy descent future.</p>
<p>For me, and this is only me personal observations, the PDC covered permaculture (and all its lessons and principles in energy efficiencies and sustainable systems design) in the landscape, except of course Chapter 14 in the Designer&#8217;s Manual which touches on alternative nations.</p>
<p>After the PDC I wanted to spend a two week block studying David Holmgren&#8217;s text as it applies to the social, economic and supply and production systems of our region. This is how we came up with writing our energy descent action planning course &#8211; with the EDAP (as mentioned by David in his talk) as the final product.</p>
<p>Here on the Sunshine Coast we&#8217;ve excelled in permaculture food production. We have three very active pc groups and Crystal Waters village nearby. </p>
<p>Nambour &#8211; my nearest town &#8211; was the site of the world&#8217;s first pc community group in 1974, started by Max Lindegger. Geoff Lawton started our biggest group &#8211; permaculture noosa.</p>
<p>Yet, here it&#8217;s seen in the community mainly as food production &#8211; or worse still as companion planting or mulching!</p>
<p>Using the term &#8216;transition towns&#8217; we are applying those exact same principles in David&#8217;s text and the seven domains of action (expanded to be the sectors of our edap) and people are very accepting of it. They don&#8217;t have those pre-conceived attitudes to pc. </p>
<p>Some people have even come up to us afterwards and said we should do a permaculture course, cause it&#8217;s the same thing. (We both teach PDCs &#8211; my partner in this project has been for more than 20 years and has co-taught with Bill and also was instrumental in the accredited permaculture training programs &#8211; I&#8217;m just learning from her)</p>
<p>I see TTs as an important part of this third wave of environmentalism we are experiencing, but taking it beyond only environment to the social and structural (both hard and soft infrastructure) of our entire societies.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve gone right back to Permaculture One &#8211; on the first page of that &#8211; published in 1978 &#8211; it says that permaculture has a much wider impact &#8211; as a solution to (among other things) our fast-depleting energy.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re working with David Holmgren reporting back what we are doing and how we are utilising his text to do this.</p>
<p>Transition Towns = best thing since sliced bread!</p>
<p>S</p>
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		<title>By: Sonya</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60288</link>
		<dc:creator>Sonya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60288</guid>
		<description>Over the time we&#039;ve been transitioning here on the Sunshine Coast we&#039;ve learnt many, many things. But most relevant to this is;

Never set a date/year/timeframe for any set oil/petrol price increases - if it doesn&#039;t happen as you say, you&#039;re ideas are quickly dismissed. Explain how it&#039;s not that clear cut.

Clearly communicate that this is a flexible, adaptive plan/project model that needs to be constantly reviewed (Creatively use &amp; respond to change - as David Holmgren encourages us to do), good ideas built on and celebrated, not so good ideas either turfed out completely or shelved for review in the future. If you&#039;re in a cul de sac, back out and get back on the open road.

Having spent two years full time on this - and having come from a govt background in emergency services and management and strategic planning - it&#039;s the best we&#039;ve got. 

I be very interested to see what the naysayers are proposing as a strategy for individual, community, business, industry, education, and governmental change on this scale. 

If they&#039;ve got something better, then let&#039;s hear it. Till then, it&#039;s onward and upward applying this in our daily lives, in our communities, in our regions and learning (quickly) as we go - then telling others about what we&#039;ve learned.

Onward and upward,
Sonya
Transition Sunshine Coast Australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over the time we&#8217;ve been transitioning here on the Sunshine Coast we&#8217;ve learnt many, many things. But most relevant to this is;</p>
<p>Never set a date/year/timeframe for any set oil/petrol price increases &#8211; if it doesn&#8217;t happen as you say, you&#8217;re ideas are quickly dismissed. Explain how it&#8217;s not that clear cut.</p>
<p>Clearly communicate that this is a flexible, adaptive plan/project model that needs to be constantly reviewed (Creatively use &amp; respond to change &#8211; as David Holmgren encourages us to do), good ideas built on and celebrated, not so good ideas either turfed out completely or shelved for review in the future. If you&#8217;re in a cul de sac, back out and get back on the open road.</p>
<p>Having spent two years full time on this &#8211; and having come from a govt background in emergency services and management and strategic planning &#8211; it&#8217;s the best we&#8217;ve got. </p>
<p>I be very interested to see what the naysayers are proposing as a strategy for individual, community, business, industry, education, and governmental change on this scale. </p>
<p>If they&#8217;ve got something better, then let&#8217;s hear it. Till then, it&#8217;s onward and upward applying this in our daily lives, in our communities, in our regions and learning (quickly) as we go &#8211; then telling others about what we&#8217;ve learned.</p>
<p>Onward and upward,<br />
Sonya<br />
Transition Sunshine Coast Australia.</p>
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		<title>By: Brixtonian</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60287</link>
		<dc:creator>Brixtonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60287</guid>
		<description>Must admit, at the Brixton Unleashing (there&#039;s something so kinky about that word - always makes me smile ..) I found the various mentions that &#039;we are creating history&#039; exactly what Greer means by premature triumphalism. And while I&#039;m about it, we were in Brixton ... the fact that so few black people were in the audience was a re-creation of history that makes me feels very cynical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Must admit, at the Brixton Unleashing (there&#8217;s something so kinky about that word &#8211; always makes me smile ..) I found the various mentions that &#8216;we are creating history&#8217; exactly what Greer means by premature triumphalism. And while I&#8217;m about it, we were in Brixton &#8230; the fact that so few black people were in the audience was a re-creation of history that makes me feels very cynical.</p>
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		<title>By: Greenpa</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60285</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenpa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60285</guid>
		<description>Eh.  Sorry, but Greer has failed to intelligently critique the Transition Movement.  Rob, your response to him shows more intrinsic intelligence than his criticisms do.  And more &quot;due diligence.&quot;

Basically, all his concerns are already raised, considered, and dealt with by Transitioneers.  And he underestimated it all- and didn&#039;t bother to find out.

I&#039;m also not inclined to pay much attention to armchair types expressing &quot;reservations&quot; about those involved- up to and over their eyebrows - in DOING.  Does Greer do anything- besides write?  I honestly don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh.  Sorry, but Greer has failed to intelligently critique the Transition Movement.  Rob, your response to him shows more intrinsic intelligence than his criticisms do.  And more &#8220;due diligence.&#8221;</p>
<p>Basically, all his concerns are already raised, considered, and dealt with by Transitioneers.  And he underestimated it all- and didn&#8217;t bother to find out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also not inclined to pay much attention to armchair types expressing &#8220;reservations&#8221; about those involved- up to and over their eyebrows &#8211; in DOING.  Does Greer do anything- besides write?  I honestly don&#8217;t know.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Climpson</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60282</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Climpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60282</guid>
		<description>Hi Rob, 

It was really good to meet/briefly chat the other day down here in the forest..... already looking forward to next time. 

This is all really helpful stuff which we can all use with each other and our local communities in getting our stones rolling.

Whilst I think I understand John&#039;s comment on political sound bites...... responses such as yours do give us the simple observations that can so easily be shared ( another phrase for sound bites ) to help harness the collective energy/enthusiasm which drives the transition adventure at a local level.

Anyway, good stuff, when I&#039;ve got a bit more time I&#039;ll try and be a bit more helpful with something for your new book!!

Our first big Hub event last Saturday went well with locality and subject groups being formed as we&#039;d hoped</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rob, </p>
<p>It was really good to meet/briefly chat the other day down here in the forest&#8230;.. already looking forward to next time. </p>
<p>This is all really helpful stuff which we can all use with each other and our local communities in getting our stones rolling.</p>
<p>Whilst I think I understand John&#8217;s comment on political sound bites&#8230;&#8230; responses such as yours do give us the simple observations that can so easily be shared ( another phrase for sound bites ) to help harness the collective energy/enthusiasm which drives the transition adventure at a local level.</p>
<p>Anyway, good stuff, when I&#8217;ve got a bit more time I&#8217;ll try and be a bit more helpful with something for your new book!!</p>
<p>Our first big Hub event last Saturday went well with locality and subject groups being formed as we&#8217;d hoped</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Weston</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60270</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Weston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60270</guid>
		<description>Interesting phenomenon here for me personally: three people whose work I admire a great deal are: Gregory Bateson, John Michael Greer and Rob Hopkins. Seems Mr Greer was reading a lot of Bateson&#039;s &#039;Conscious Purpose vs Nature&#039; stuff on that flight (!) to the Peak Oil conference, as well as the double bind material he mentions explicitly. My (ever ongoing) reading of Bateson currently suggests that his main concern was that our conscious (usually misguidedly &#039;self-interested&#039;) short-arc purposiveness in the face of an infinitely complex meta-systemic reality tends to fuck up said reality (ie Nature). Bateson&#039;s Ghost (not to mention his daughter) seems to be telling us that a sense of the sacred - ie wisdom - involves (indeed IS) a beyond-conscious awareness of the fact of large-system circuitry. Being supra-conscious I sense that perhaps this awareness doesn&#039;t fall under Bateson&#039;s conscious purpose definition and is, further, part of our feeling our ways towards solutions or improvements. I have always (well, for over twenty years) felt that permaculture has this wisdom. More recently I have increasingly felt that the Transition approach articulates and activates permacultural wisdom better than Bill Mollison (bless him) ever did. Keep it up, you guys - very much including rigorous criticisms and other evolutionary adjustments - I&#039;m sure Bateson&#039;s Shade is happy under this tree :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting phenomenon here for me personally: three people whose work I admire a great deal are: Gregory Bateson, John Michael Greer and Rob Hopkins. Seems Mr Greer was reading a lot of Bateson&#8217;s &#8216;Conscious Purpose vs Nature&#8217; stuff on that flight (!) to the Peak Oil conference, as well as the double bind material he mentions explicitly. My (ever ongoing) reading of Bateson currently suggests that his main concern was that our conscious (usually misguidedly &#8217;self-interested&#8217;) short-arc purposiveness in the face of an infinitely complex meta-systemic reality tends to fuck up said reality (ie Nature). Bateson&#8217;s Ghost (not to mention his daughter) seems to be telling us that a sense of the sacred &#8211; ie wisdom &#8211; involves (indeed IS) a beyond-conscious awareness of the fact of large-system circuitry. Being supra-conscious I sense that perhaps this awareness doesn&#8217;t fall under Bateson&#8217;s conscious purpose definition and is, further, part of our feeling our ways towards solutions or improvements. I have always (well, for over twenty years) felt that permaculture has this wisdom. More recently I have increasingly felt that the Transition approach articulates and activates permacultural wisdom better than Bill Mollison (bless him) ever did. Keep it up, you guys &#8211; very much including rigorous criticisms and other evolutionary adjustments &#8211; I&#8217;m sure Bateson&#8217;s Shade is happy under this tree <img src='http://transitionculture.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Albert Bates</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2008/11/20/responding-to-greers-thoughts-on-premature-triumphalism/comment-page-1/#comment-60269</link>
		<dc:creator>Albert Bates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/?p=2113#comment-60269</guid>
		<description>Quite eloquent. In open process there is always a risk (including unrealistic expectation), but the upside holds a far greater potential to succeed (not least in unforeseen ways) than something constrained by a predetermined design. Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite eloquent. In open process there is always a risk (including unrealistic expectation), but the upside holds a far greater potential to succeed (not least in unforeseen ways) than something constrained by a predetermined design. Well done.</p>
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