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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;How Green is my Valley&#8221;&#8230; the take-off of Transition Initiatives in Wales.</title>
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	<link>http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/</link>
	<description>An Evolving Exploration into the Head, Heart and Hands of Energy Descent</description>
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		<title>By: citrus</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/comment-page-1/#comment-53158</link>
		<dc:creator>citrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/#comment-53158</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;referring to the transition wales meeting; i have noticed a lot of people already in enshrined organisations want to seize transition towns as a name, adopt it to cover their existing activities and carry on as usual. when i first heard about transition towns i was enthralled by it&#039;s organic grass-roots nature, by the way it could be shaped to fit the local comunity and their needs.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;since it has accelerated so dramatically into being supported by the WAG i worry a lot that it will go the way of many great environmental projects and become nothing more of a token gesture. nightmare scenes of entering towns and under &#039;twinned with...&#039; there being a sign saying &#039;... is a Transition Town&#039; but nothing actually changing in the mindset of the people.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;i&#039;m currently helping the very early stages of a potential transition initiative in swansea and it&#039;s amazing how many organisations (including the council) want to be involved. part of me thinks this is great and part wonders how &#039;grass-roots&#039; anything can be if it is being run by the same people whose advice already falls on far too many deaf ears. my hope with transition towns is that people would be more likely to follow advice if it was given by a neighbour or a friend in a commmunity run group than from people who have their organisation in brackets after their name whenever it&#039;s written down..&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;maybe this is controversial!! i&#039;d love to hear any comments about what i&#039;ve said..&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>referring to the transition wales meeting; i have noticed a lot of people already in enshrined organisations want to seize transition towns as a name, adopt it to cover their existing activities and carry on as usual. when i first heard about transition towns i was enthralled by it&#8217;s organic grass-roots nature, by the way it could be shaped to fit the local comunity and their needs.</p>
<p>since it has accelerated so dramatically into being supported by the WAG i worry a lot that it will go the way of many great environmental projects and become nothing more of a token gesture. nightmare scenes of entering towns and under &#8216;twinned with&#8230;&#8217; there being a sign saying &#8216;&#8230; is a Transition Town&#8217; but nothing actually changing in the mindset of the people.</p>
<p>i&#8217;m currently helping the very early stages of a potential transition initiative in swansea and it&#8217;s amazing how many organisations (including the council) want to be involved. part of me thinks this is great and part wonders how &#8216;grass-roots&#8217; anything can be if it is being run by the same people whose advice already falls on far too many deaf ears. my hope with transition towns is that people would be more likely to follow advice if it was given by a neighbour or a friend in a commmunity run group than from people who have their organisation in brackets after their name whenever it&#8217;s written down..</p>
<p>maybe this is controversial!! i&#8217;d love to hear any comments about what i&#8217;ve said..</p>
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		<title>By: Dodo</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/comment-page-1/#comment-52985</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/#comment-52985</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi
Came upon this site by chance.Love it. Very interested.
In response to a couple of the posts:
Peak Oil - google theoildrum for some good discussion (some get a bit technical but sift through anyway)
Economic Growth - As an economic illiterate, I wrestled with notions of (impossible) endless growth and its damage to humanity.  It&#039;s impossible to get out of econmic growth under our current banking system . Google Reserve Banks and Partial Reserve Banks. We&#039;re under Partial Reserves which means we rely on being about 98% in debt for the system to flourish and which DEMANDS continued growth. It&#039;s also interesting to look at an Islamic banking system as an alternative system - the are other alternatives too.
I currently live in Qatar, but shall soon be returning to Australia where an independent bank has been set us - though it&#039;s not really an alternative system.  The small eco community I hope to live in is investigating a &#039;leak-proof&#039; small community economic model where what is generate in the community stays in the community.  Still early days on this.
Thanks for a great read on this site.
Dodo&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br />
Came upon this site by chance.Love it. Very interested.<br />
In response to a couple of the posts:<br />
Peak Oil &#8211; google theoildrum for some good discussion (some get a bit technical but sift through anyway)<br />
Economic Growth &#8211; As an economic illiterate, I wrestled with notions of (impossible) endless growth and its damage to humanity.  It&#8217;s impossible to get out of econmic growth under our current banking system . Google Reserve Banks and Partial Reserve Banks. We&#8217;re under Partial Reserves which means we rely on being about 98% in debt for the system to flourish and which DEMANDS continued growth. It&#8217;s also interesting to look at an Islamic banking system as an alternative system &#8211; the are other alternatives too.<br />
I currently live in Qatar, but shall soon be returning to Australia where an independent bank has been set us &#8211; though it&#8217;s not really an alternative system.  The small eco community I hope to live in is investigating a &#8216;leak-proof&#8217; small community economic model where what is generate in the community stays in the community.  Still early days on this.<br />
Thanks for a great read on this site.<br />
Dodo</p>
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		<title>By: Belgian Ann</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/comment-page-1/#comment-52946</link>
		<dc:creator>Belgian Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/#comment-52946</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The question could be: &quot;Do we need endless economic growth?&quot; Once basic needs are provided for and a little extra for comfort, do we need to keep on chasing after more and more money? Does more money make us(individuals and communities)happier? Does it give us a better quality of life? Or is it just the capitalist illusion of more is better? How about having more time to spend with our loved ones, to do a little community volunteering, to pursue some personal growth, to study, to play music, paint your masterpiece,learn a new skill or to just watch your garden grow?
It seems to me that economic growth happens not only at the expense of the environment, but also costs us in many other kinds of &quot;growth&quot; ( or other peoples&#039;, if you take worker exploitation into account).
For myself, transition is also a change to a different mindset, from the empty promise of  consumerism, to more enduring values and the pursuit of what makes me truly happy, something that most of the time I&#039;m still to busy chasing money for, because there are bills to pay.
That what is coming = making do with less does not scare me anymore, I have a feeling I might become all the richer for it...
Any comments, keep&#039;m coming&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question could be: &#8220;Do we need endless economic growth?&#8221; Once basic needs are provided for and a little extra for comfort, do we need to keep on chasing after more and more money? Does more money make us(individuals and communities)happier? Does it give us a better quality of life? Or is it just the capitalist illusion of more is better? How about having more time to spend with our loved ones, to do a little community volunteering, to pursue some personal growth, to study, to play music, paint your masterpiece,learn a new skill or to just watch your garden grow?<br />
It seems to me that economic growth happens not only at the expense of the environment, but also costs us in many other kinds of &#8220;growth&#8221; ( or other peoples&#8217;, if you take worker exploitation into account).<br />
For myself, transition is also a change to a different mindset, from the empty promise of  consumerism, to more enduring values and the pursuit of what makes me truly happy, something that most of the time I&#8217;m still to busy chasing money for, because there are bills to pay.<br />
That what is coming = making do with less does not scare me anymore, I have a feeling I might become all the richer for it&#8230;<br />
Any comments, keep&#8217;m coming</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/comment-page-1/#comment-52928</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 12:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/#comment-52928</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I went to the meeting knowing little and came away without knowing much more:-/
I didn&#039;t learn anything about what those who have organized into groups are doing other than talking, despite the &#039;best practice&#039; session. Although most people know what &#039;climate change&#039; refers to I think that &#039;peak oil&#039; would produce a majority of blank faces and would like to know the most successful ways to change that (if I&#039;m right?)
On the question of economic growth &amp; environmental sustainability I only see a problem if the traditional measures of economic growth are used - GDP etc. Measures of wealth and poverty, productivity and consumption, and so on, will need to be measured quite differently for geographically small but largely self-sustaining socio-economic communities.
Oh dear, now I&#039;m just talking... ;-)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Cheers, geoff&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to the meeting knowing little and came away without knowing much more:-/<br />
I didn&#8217;t learn anything about what those who have organized into groups are doing other than talking, despite the &#8216;best practice&#8217; session. Although most people know what &#8216;climate change&#8217; refers to I think that &#8216;peak oil&#8217; would produce a majority of blank faces and would like to know the most successful ways to change that (if I&#8217;m right?)<br />
On the question of economic growth &amp; environmental sustainability I only see a problem if the traditional measures of economic growth are used &#8211; GDP etc. Measures of wealth and poverty, productivity and consumption, and so on, will need to be measured quite differently for geographically small but largely self-sustaining socio-economic communities.<br />
Oh dear, now I&#8217;m just talking&#8230; <img src='http://transitionculture.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers, geoff</p>
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		<title>By: Mandi</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/comment-page-1/#comment-52920</link>
		<dc:creator>Mandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/#comment-52920</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Having had a quick look at some Transition Town proposals for my local area, most of which looked very exciting. I would like to ask this question of anyone involved in the transition movement/process: How, if at all, does economic growth and environmental sustainability go hand in hand? I am myself sceptical, seeing the two things as directly opposed to each other. I would however like to open this up for debate&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having had a quick look at some Transition Town proposals for my local area, most of which looked very exciting. I would like to ask this question of anyone involved in the transition movement/process: How, if at all, does economic growth and environmental sustainability go hand in hand? I am myself sceptical, seeing the two things as directly opposed to each other. I would however like to open this up for debate</p>
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		<title>By: Vicky</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/comment-page-1/#comment-52911</link>
		<dc:creator>Vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 22:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/#comment-52911</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with the core of what you say, it was not an inspiring meeting in the spirit of the transition movement (nothing wrong with being a movment)
The audience had lots to teach the panel and each other, this was not a meeting for this to happen.
But now we are connected thru emails we can decide what networking and collaborative efforts we want to do, eg website, talking to the Assembly in our own way, not facing a panel who will do it for us.
Get in touch if you want to be on an open email group with other transitioners in Wales.
vickymoller@ukonline.co.uk&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the core of what you say, it was not an inspiring meeting in the spirit of the transition movement (nothing wrong with being a movment)<br />
The audience had lots to teach the panel and each other, this was not a meeting for this to happen.<br />
But now we are connected thru emails we can decide what networking and collaborative efforts we want to do, eg website, talking to the Assembly in our own way, not facing a panel who will do it for us.<br />
Get in touch if you want to be on an open email group with other transitioners in Wales.<br />
<a href="mailto:vickymoller@ukonline.co.uk">vickymoller@ukonline.co.uk</a></p>
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		<title>By: mandy</title>
		<link>http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/comment-page-1/#comment-52900</link>
		<dc:creator>mandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://transitionculture.org/2007/11/13/how-green-is-my-valley-the-take-off-of-transition-initiatives-in-wales/#comment-52900</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I went along to this meeting today expecting something similar to the inspirational Transition Network day in Stroud last May.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;What I found was something entirely different which I now see from reading the above more carefully I should have perhaps expected.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I did not feel that the event I attended today reflected my understanding of the Transition ethos. The way that the event was led, rather than facilitated, being particularly telling and which left me feeling that the organisers really hadn&#039;t &quot;got&quot; the transition thing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It seems that the transition &quot;brand&quot; has been understood by certain parties as a movement, rather than a process that communities go through in order for them to prepare themselves for peak oil respond to the problem of climate change. Instead it seems that some of the attendees, and especially the organisers, see it as a movement that is going to join together all the people concerned about climate change.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;While I would not disagree that such a mass movement is needed, as a steering group member of a Transition initiative I did not feel that the agenda as proposed had anything to do with supporting local initiatives and in fact was entirely aimed at asking us, as the grass roots, to give the organisers of the meeting our mandate to be the spokespeople for the entire transition &quot;movement&quot; in Wales - being the interface with the Welsh Assembly Government, the National Press and funding bodies.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There was no clear mandate from the transition groups that any of these things were wanted or needed. Rather there were requests for networking facilities and a bilingual webspace for Welsh specific items. The organisers of the meeting seemed to be content for volunteers from the initiatives to provide these functions.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;How do other people who were there feel about how things were and the outcome of the meeting?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;More comments please.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mandy&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went along to this meeting today expecting something similar to the inspirational Transition Network day in Stroud last May.</p>
<p>What I found was something entirely different which I now see from reading the above more carefully I should have perhaps expected.</p>
<p>I did not feel that the event I attended today reflected my understanding of the Transition ethos. The way that the event was led, rather than facilitated, being particularly telling and which left me feeling that the organisers really hadn&#8217;t &#8220;got&#8221; the transition thing.</p>
<p>It seems that the transition &#8220;brand&#8221; has been understood by certain parties as a movement, rather than a process that communities go through in order for them to prepare themselves for peak oil respond to the problem of climate change. Instead it seems that some of the attendees, and especially the organisers, see it as a movement that is going to join together all the people concerned about climate change.</p>
<p>While I would not disagree that such a mass movement is needed, as a steering group member of a Transition initiative I did not feel that the agenda as proposed had anything to do with supporting local initiatives and in fact was entirely aimed at asking us, as the grass roots, to give the organisers of the meeting our mandate to be the spokespeople for the entire transition &#8220;movement&#8221; in Wales &#8211; being the interface with the Welsh Assembly Government, the National Press and funding bodies.</p>
<p>There was no clear mandate from the transition groups that any of these things were wanted or needed. Rather there were requests for networking facilities and a bilingual webspace for Welsh specific items. The organisers of the meeting seemed to be content for volunteers from the initiatives to provide these functions.</p>
<p>How do other people who were there feel about how things were and the outcome of the meeting?</p>
<p>More comments please.</p>
<p>Mandy</p>
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